Friday, December 16, 2005

Nightwing Edit Surprise

Comic customers this week may have been surprised to see Nightwing #115, as it featured the following cover:

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

This would be surprising because the book was initially solicited with THIS cover:

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

In addition, the solicitation for #115 were as follows:
Nightwing's long and winding road has landed him under Deathstroke's thumb in the most vicious collection of villains ever assembled! Now, it's time for Dick Grayson to take matters into his own hands. But if he's trading Deathstroke's loyalty for Lex Luthor's, is his life getting any better?

Well, suffice to say, that solicitation did not match the actual plot of Nightwing #115 at ALL. Lex Luthor was not even IN the comic book. In addition, #115 really did not match the ending of #114 at all, either.

What Nightwing #115 DID do was rather abruptly cut Devin Grayson's storyline short by two issues, resolving everything in #115 rather than her obviously larger story, as detailed by the following solicitations for #116 and #117:

#116 -
The full scope of Deathstroke's fury is revealed! Dick Grayson has been "on the inside" for a long time, but to what end? Who's watching whom? And who will pay the price when lives are on the line? You simply can't miss the explosive secrets revealed in this issue!
#117 -
Deathstroke's endgame is in play, and not everyone will make it out in one piece! On the run from the deadly Society, Nightwing is in for the fight of his life. Guest-starring Oracle and a whole mess of villains as we wrap up one of the biggest Dick Grayson stories ever!
Essentially, these solicitations do not match what actually occured in #115, which was a wrap-up to the crime problem in Bludhaven, and an end to Nightwing's undercover journey with Deathstroke.

So...what the heck happened?

Read More

41 Comments:

Blogger ninjawookie said...

Somebody realised that Devin Grayson hasn't written anything great in years?

Or her and Mark Waid broke up and now they're forcing her out.

Man that was catty. But I was just saying what everyone was thinking anyways. Unless there are people who do enjoy her writing, which there might be. In that case I have nothing.

12/16/2005 06:08:00 AM  
Blogger Christopher Burton said...

What's the point of solicitation text if it's not actually in the comic book?! That's like putting a Tom Clancy cover blurb on a Jane Austen novel. Okay, it's not quite like that, but I want correct solicitation text! That's not too much to ask.

Can a comic publisher be reported for false advertising?

But what do I care, really. I'm not reading this dreck. ;)

12/16/2005 07:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Martin said...

Wait - it's cutting short Grayson's ham-fisted quasi-slash fiction? Hosanna!
As has been said, though, not that I care. Not even Hester and Parks could get me to read that comic, sadly.

12/16/2005 07:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Iron Lungfish said...

Y'know, I don't care if it's Devin Grayson or not*. This level of screwage is noxious in the extreme. Readers look for upcoming plots and solicitation texts (as do retailers, obviously) and plan their purchases accordingly. This wasn't just screwing over the creative team (which is bad, but commonplace); this screwed over anyone with an interest in the comic.

I assume this was done to further railroad the book along its predetermined Infinite Crisisdom. Looking at One Year Later so far, I'm already dropping one book and having another canceled out from under me, while planning to pick up none of the new stuff. God damn, would I love to see one of these idiot gimmicks backfire, but by now I've come to accept that most guys buying comics prefer the Massive Multipart Crossover that Changes Everything to a relatively self-contained story.

On an unrelated note, the second (replaced) cover is made pretty hilarious by the little hand-holding-a-gun coming out of the corner. It adds a very "nyuk nyuk nyuk!" effect.

*(And really, I recently read some of her Nightwing stuff, and while they don't do much for me, there's no way her comics, taken by themselves, are more fanboyish than, say, Geoff Johns's are for Hal Jordan. But accusations that Johns wants to have sex with Green Lantern are few and far between - as are those that he got where he did by screwing people. I hesitate to throw this out there, but if she weren't a woman I doubt she'd get this kind of flak from [overwhelmingly male] fans.)

12/16/2005 08:40:00 AM  
Blogger David C said...

"Can a comic publisher be reported for false advertising?"

Probably not, but I believe this sort of thing *does* automatically make the issue returnable.

12/16/2005 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger Mark Fossen said...

I assume this was done to further railroad the book along its predetermined Infinite Crisisdom.
Yeah - they need to get him in place for OYL, and must have rushed things along. The next two sses will tel you what hepened here, I expect.

But accusations that Johns wants to have sex with Green Lantern are few and far between - as are those that he got where he did by screwing people. I hesitate to throw this out there, but if she weren't a woman I doubt she'd get this kind of flak from [overwhelmingly male] fans.
You deserve some sort of truth-speaking cookie for that. It's fair game think ill of Grayson's writing, but the misogyny is crap. Pure and simple, it's a cheap shot.

12/16/2005 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

For the record, I don't think Grayson got where she is by screwing anybody, but I do think her fangirl crush on Nightwing irreparably harmed her ability to write him, and I won't be sorry to see her go.

12/16/2005 12:29:00 PM  
Blogger Brian Cronin said...

Yeah, I don't like the sex stuff with Grayson either, because I think it gives defenders of Grayson an easy scapegoat. "You're just being mean to her!"

Just keep it to her stories, which have been, for the most part, pretty dreadful.

And yes, David, this most likely WILL result in the book being returnable. I just wonder what was so important that DC felt it was worth making the book returnable.

12/16/2005 01:41:00 PM  
Blogger MarkAndrew said...

"Y'know, I don't care if it's Devin Grayson or not*. This level of screwage is noxious in the extreme. Readers look for upcoming plots and solicitation texts (as do retailers, obviously) and plan their purchases accordingly. This wasn't just screwing over the creative team (which is bad, but commonplace); this screwed over anyone with an interest in the comic."

Ab-so-lutely. And thank you.

12/16/2005 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger Sarah said...

And really, I recently read some of her Nightwing stuff, and while they don't do much for me, there's no way her comics, taken by themselves, are more fanboyish than, say, Geoff Johns's are for Hal Jordan. But accusations that Johns wants to have sex with Green Lantern are few and far between - as are those that he got where he did by screwing people.

Totally. I've loved some of her stories (just think her early stuff on GOTHAM KNIGHTS was fun and sweet) and been left completely cold by others (hope never to see Tarantula again), but I've found it downright pathetic that people don't even think they need to *try* to hide the fact that her being a woman bothers them. It's pitiful that the culture tolerates it. And then everyone wonders why Marvel and DC can't sell to women.

I read an interview recently with her in which she said this whole storyline, which had already gotten editorial approval, *was* changed at the last second to set up whatever Crisis-related change it's supposed to set up. That sort of thing must be par for the course for corporate superhero comics writers, but imagine spending basically two full years working on a storyline and having your ending jerked away from you *after it already got editorial approval* just because the higher-ups decided they needed a chesspiece and yours would do. No one deserves that.

12/16/2005 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger Lyle said...

I've loved some of her stories (just think her early stuff on GOTHAM KNIGHTS was fun and sweet) and been left completely cold by others (hope never to see Tarantula again), but I've found it downright pathetic that people don't even think they need to *try* to hide the fact that her being a woman bothers them. It's pitiful that the culture tolerates it. And then everyone wonders why Marvel and DC can't sell to women.

Oh, thank you Sarah. It's one thing to not like Grayson's writing but too many of her critics don't have a problem throwing some kind of sexist comment into the mix (frequently ones suggesting that she's gotten work through sexual favors). It's a very sad statement about the industry that these comments frequenly come up when Grayson becoems a part of the conversation.

12/16/2005 06:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Eli said...

That's a shame. I liked the original cover.

I don't think, though, that it's necessarily always misogynistic to wonder about the role of the Waid relationship in Grayson's career. That's not to say that there isn't some misogyny tossed around about Grayson, because there is. But imagine this hypothetical:

You run a comics publisher. Two of the people who do write for you or have written for you are romantically involved. One of them is a big, important name to you as a company. The other is competent but not really a standout - capable of carrying a peripheral book without blowing anyone away or totally destroying it. It seems like you'd be an idiot not to treat the mediocre writer better than you would if he or she weren't involved with the star. You're going to have some non-stars, and there are plenty to choose from, so why not just choose that one to avoid making waves with the bigger name?

And nothing in that scenario is contingent on the gender of either person. It could be a female star and a male journeyman. It could be two men or two women. The only thing that matters is that they be romantically involved.

12/16/2005 07:38:00 PM  
Anonymous thekamisama said...

I never cared much for dragging lives of creators into the mix.
I just figured I was tricked by a forward thinking editor at DC who made a few choice solicitations to throw off people looking for clues to IC.
I know I am probably wrong. But I like my story better than worrying about comic creators like some tabliodish fodder.

12/16/2005 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Dan Coyle said...

Look, everyone.

I'm no fan of Devin Grayson.

I'm no fan of Mark Waid.

That said: She had already lined up quite a few DC gigs before they were seeing each other. And they broke up years ago. And Grayson continued to be gainfully employed by DC when Waid was at CrossGen.

To insist- and given the comments she makes about fandom, and the quality of her work in the past two years- in a twisted way I can see the justification- that she's where she is just because of a personal relationship that at this point only constitutes a fraction of her career is just dirty pool.

Both of them are talented; both have crawled into fanboy/girl bottles in the past few years which they may never escape; both of them are prickly and childish in their interviews about fans (though Grayson in particular is rather kind in person to her fans, which makes me wonder who that person Jason Baldwin interviewed is). The fact that they were dating at one point, in the big picture, has Jack shit to do with their employment these or any day.

So knoc it off.

12/16/2005 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger Rob S. said...

Hear hear. That kind of rumormongering and speculation lowers anyone who makes it.

12/16/2005 10:03:00 PM  
Blogger Brian Cronin said...

Especially since it helps to distract from how poor her Nightwing work has been!

12/16/2005 10:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Zach said...

Comparing Devin Grayson to Geoff Johns doesn't work. We know why Geoff got where he is: years of good storytelling.

Admittedly, he's completely abandoned all of his talent as of "Rebirth," but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

12/16/2005 11:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Iron Lungfish said...

We know why Geoff got where he is: years of good storytelling.

I admire a good straight line.

12/16/2005 11:35:00 PM  
Blogger Bastarður Víkinga said...

Actually, reading his Green Lantern, the thought of Geoff' possible man-love fantasies towards Hal Jordan has not escaped me.

12/17/2005 12:54:00 AM  
Blogger Sleestak said...

"Iron Lungfish said...God damn, would I love to see one of these idiot gimmicks backfire"

Infinite DC Implosion

12/17/2005 08:23:00 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

"Especially since it helps to distract from how poor her Nightwing work has been!"

Glad to see your priorities are straight, Bri.

12/17/2005 09:59:00 AM  
Blogger Eliot Johnson said...

Reading the post and all the comments in this thread, I have to say that there's only one thing I'm sure of.

Geoff Johns wants to have sex with Hal Jordan.

12/17/2005 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger Brian Cronin said...

"Glad to see your priorities are straight, Bri."

Darn tootin'!

I want to be able to criticize creators without people going overboard!

12/17/2005 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous A.L. Baroza said...

No good will ever come from comic book creators having sex.

12/17/2005 02:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Aaron Kashtan said...

According to Dan Coyle:

"Both of them are talented; both have crawled into fanboy/girl bottles in the past few years which they may never escape; both of them are prickly and childish in their interviews about fans (though Grayson in particular is rather kind in person to her fans, which makes me wonder who that person Jason Baldwin interviewed is)."

I have a totally opposite impression of Mark. I don't read his interviews regularly, but on the few occasions when I've spoken to him, he's been nothing but polite and genial. (I also don't think he's crawled into an inescapable fanboy bottle, but that's a separate issue. :))

12/17/2005 11:02:00 PM  
Blogger ninjawookie said...

I hesitate to throw this out there, but if she weren't a woman I doubt she'd get this kind of flak from [overwhelmingly male] fans.)

-It if weren't such an overwhelmingly Male industry in the first place it probably wouldn't of been scrutinised at all.

12/17/2005 11:37:00 PM  
Blogger MarkAndrew said...

I've NEVER seen Cronin be this down as a comic.

I honestly don't believe her Nightwing can be all THAT bad.

I didn't dig Grayson's Ghost Rider or Titans, but I thought her X-men stuff was solid, and her Catwoman run was

....

Dang

...

Probably on my top ten list of "Best Superhero Books of the Last Few Years."

12/18/2005 01:53:00 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

When did Devin Grayson write X-Men?

12/18/2005 09:46:00 AM  
Blogger Brian Cronin said...

I think I've pointed out before how Nightwing is more annoying because the book was not bad when she took it over. She did a pretty good job the first 10 issues or so, then took a nosedive into suck-ville and has never returned.

When a guy like AJ Lieberman sucks on a title from the very first issue (or Jon Lewis), then there's not much to discuss, is there? The guy is just bad.

But when a writer IS good, and then starts to write poorly, it is almost willful suckage - much more annoying.

Just like her Titans - if she did not do such a good job on #1, then the rest of the series being bad would have been easier to deal with.

Compare that to her Ghost Rider. That was awful, through and through, and notice that no one really talks about that?

By the by, when's the last time you read her Catwoman?

12/18/2005 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger Bill said...

Wasn't this sort of thing (unannounced major changes from the originally solicited material) at the heart of that lawsuit Marvel lost not too long ago? I hope DC is ready to accept potential returns on a whole bunch of Nightwing issues!

12/18/2005 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger MarkAndrew said...

Michael asks

"When did Devin Grayson write X-Men?"

She wrote "X-Men: Evolution" which was somewhere in between an Ultimate Style revamp and one of the Marvel Age Books aimed at younger kids.

Or maybe it WAS one of the Marvel Age books.

It wasn't Spidey Supder Stories good. (I learned to read from Spidey Super Stories, so I could be a tad biased...)

But it was solid.

Cronin says

"I think I've pointed out before how Nightwing is more annoying because the book was not bad when she took it over...."

Oh, I'm sure you did.

Repeatedly.

That's sort of my point here, really. You're under no obligation t' justify yourself here or anything... Especially since I haven't read word one of Grayson's Nightwing.

I was simply observing that I've never seen you be this anti ANYTHING before, either here or on the CBR board.

And THEN I was simply implying that you're probably wrong.

"By the by, when's the last time you read her Catwoman? "

Couple years back, and I lost the box they were in. Picked up a solid run for 50 cents each at Half Price Books in Seattle.

So maybe it wasn't quite as good as I remember it.

Still, I REALLY liked it at the time I read it.... Are you sayin' it was bad?

12/18/2005 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger Mallet said...

I'm not particularily hateful towards her, I just don't like Nightwing anymore. The books are ok I guess but not at all where Nightwing should be. Some of it's editorial a lot is still her though, and I don't really understand as I know she can write good.

It's much confusing.

12/18/2005 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Brian Cronin said...

"I was simply observing that I've never seen you be this anti ANYTHING before, either here or on the CBR board."

I have plenty of anti bits. I just try not to repeat them, as after awhile, it gets to be a bit much.

That's why I haven't had an anti-Grayson entry since APRIL.

Here is the entry from April - http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/04/why-i-think-devin-graysons-nightwing.html

It mentions there the point that I also make all the time, which is, whenever someone brings up Grayson's Nightwing, it automatically becomes a debate about her personal life, which I think is unfair.

In any event, I guess I could see how you thought that I was knocking Grayson's Nightwing has a lot recently, because I had two recent entries about it, but if you read them, you would note that neither of them were knocking Grayson.

The first was an Urban Legend (which was requested by a reader) about her name a couple weeks back- that turned into people ripping Grayson.

The second was this bit about DC drastically editing a work of hers to conform to Infinite Crisis - Reread the piece - do you see a criticism of her ANYwhere in the piece? - that also turned into people ripping Grayson.

It seems like every time I mention her, people show up to rip her, no matter what the topic is. And EVERY time, the whole "Talking about her personal life/her gender" debate comes into it. And, as I pointed out in April, that debate always irritates me, because I am all about the comic criticism, and that sort of stuff is sooo ANTI-criticism, so I want it gone.

12/18/2005 06:28:00 PM  
Blogger Marionette said...

Well said, Brian. I don't see that personal comments have any place in the discussion of a person's work. Other than getting snarky about what an idiot they are for producing such crap, obviously.

It's funny how comics creators are getting treated like celebrities (which includes nosing into their private lives) at a point where fewer and fewer people are actually interested in what they produce.

12/19/2005 08:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Kali said...

I hesitate to throw this out there, but if she weren't a woman I doubt she'd get this kind of flak from [overwhelmingly male] fans.

Well, YOU DON'T SAY! Who'd have thought, huh?

I really enjoy this blog, but this thread makes me physically ill. I can't believe this "Devin Grayson slept her way to the top!" thing is still being rehashed. And if it's news to some people that the source of most of the Devin-hate is misogyny, I honestly doubt any amount of truth-speaking is going to help.

I loved Devin's run on Nightwing. It was the first time I felt emotionally invested in a comic. I'm also a woman, and most of the female fans I know who have actually read her work have liked it. So who knows, maybe something about that y chromosome makes men incapable of liking Devin Grayson's writing. I also liked Lewis' run on Robin, so, you know, take from that what you will.

Also, I love it when people childishly slam a comic, then boast about not having read it in the same post. Priceless.

12/20/2005 09:11:00 PM  
Blogger cheng said...

Do want to know the magic of online games, and here you can get more Perfect World Gold. Do you want to have a try? Come on and Buy Perfect World Gold can make you happy.You can change a lot Perfect World Silver for play games. Playing online games can make much Perfect World money. And you will be happy at the sametime. And you can use the cheap Perfect World Gold do what you want to do in the online game.

3/25/2009 09:08:00 PM  
Blogger shoppingugg said...

buy Abercrombie clothing discount Abercrombie Fitch discount Abercrombie Fitch buy Abercrombie and Fitch clothing buy Abercrombie and Fitch clothing Abercrombie and Fitch clothing sale Abercrombie and Fitch clothing sale Ed Hardy Ed Hardy Thank you for the information

1/25/2010 01:28:00 AM  
Blogger yu said...

Also, even still mbt shoes they’re very complete, because cheap Mbt Shoes they’re black, you can preclude that not many other casual Mbt Shoes sale road shoes can get scuffed up simply. Goatskin leathered, which is really robust, reinforces Mbt Shoes discount the toes of these shoes, so compared to help loosen emphasis to discount Mbt Shoes the front, sides and back of these all four seasons cheap Mbt Shoes sale of high-shine leather at the outer of the base, thus making discount Mbt Shoes sale walking and reasonable ledge life, these are an incredible bargain at cheap Mbt Shoes sale only $110, so you might want to think about discount Mbt Shoes sale selling them a futuristic feel. In a few different mbt men shoes shades.Several elements thresher to make this mbt women shoes definitely not-for-the-faint-hearted footwear quite unique. You mbt shoes usa should have no hitch taxing these shoes gives the mbt discount shoes In truth, they’ll work particularly well with tiresome MBT Chapa these shoes with most of your attire, as quilting is curious MBT Lami as they’ll fit nicely underneath them so you can make. First off, the quality MBT Lami Shoes of these shoes is more comfortable MBT M Walk and excluding vigorous on apparel such as MBT M Walk Shoes jackets or bags. Second, the addition of the year whichever. Given thei mbt walking shoes supreme comfort, discreet fashion and other activities more regularly encountered on the base and legs, a retrieve that bunchy MBT Chapa ankle look. Lastly, the patented PF Flyers technology MBT Chapa shoes uses a category of thrust enclosure to a picture high-top, these won’t get away with any tapered pants in your pants.

2/26/2010 02:51:00 AM  
Anonymous mbt shoes said...

if you buy mbt shoes you will like mbt lami and mbt lami shoes or mbt m.walk for mbt m.walk shoes but MBT Chapa is more mbt chapa shoes than MBT Kaya that mbt kaya shoes good cheap mbt lami shoes stuff discount mbt lami shoes today cheap mbt m.walk shoes best discount mbt m.walk shoes online cheap MBT Chapa shoes sale discount mbt chapa shoes things is cheap mbt kaya shoes and discount mbt kaya shoes

7/11/2010 10:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Smooth and aerial thomas sabo the links of london fair lends an air of breeding thomas sabo charm sale to the wearer cheap thomas sabo charms and accept discount thomas sabo charms been a apparel thomas sabo charm clearance basal for thomas sabo charms australia centuries, and a alliance accoutrements tradition. thomas sabo clearance sale However, one can achieve it somewhat added chichi and admirable by giving it a hardly avant-garde aberration by interspacing on gold wire or amphibian on adapted thomas sabo australia constructed bond giving a millennium look. Currently Amphibian Chaplet are a actual "hot" actualization account thomas sabo jewellery for their contemporary and thomas sabo charms admirable looks accessible in a thomas sabo charm club array of styles, sizes and colors to amaze the eye.

10/19/2010 11:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Women leather pants said...

nice post love reading it

12/16/2011 01:08:00 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home