Monday, December 20, 2004

REPORT - FRM4242D - Are Super-Hero Tales Still Wish Fulfilment Fantasies?

I figured out "Identity Crisis," I think, and its peculiar popularity. This has probably been theorized long before now, particularly in the early-mid 90's.

But the problem with today's super-heroes is not a problem with super-heroes, it's a problem with today.

"Hey, grandpa," you're thinking, "Quit grandpa-ing around! There's nothing wrong with super-hero comics that you finally karking won't fix!"

Well, you're wrong, you little creep. I may have reached a ripe old 26 years, but I still got eyes! And I can see things you young turks can't catch. The "realism" you buttheads seem to crave is every bit as realistic as what I want in my comics. You don't want realism. You want darkness. You want despair. You want tragedy, violence and crap. Because that's what you see when you look at the world. Because nobody ever taught you differently.

Fans of "Identity Crisis" tend to defend their stance with claims that they like to see their heroes make mistakes. That it makes for better drama when the heroes aren't perfect. On its face, that defense is valid. But what kinds of "mistakes" are we talking about?

In "Identity Crisis," the heroes stop wailing on a rapist long enough to take a vote on whether or not to brainwash him so he'll never think about doing it again. The vote passes and the man is brainwashed. It leads to a procession of brainwashing with other villains. Evidently, the heroes are aware that their actions are wrong, but can't be bothered to take responsibility and undo the damage. In fact, they hide it. Even those that had qualms to begin with help keep the secret and eventually feel no regret. Of the heroes outside the secret, one finds out and turns a blind eye. Another, apparently the only man that might disrupt their activities, is himself brainwashed.

So heroes making mistakes makes for better drama. Heroes committing crimes with malice aforethought must make for terrific drama. But what does it mean for our heroes? The answer, of course, is that they are not heroes.

And we're back to where we started. What does it say that these characters are called "heroes" by the writers, the editors, and the fans when they clearly aren't?

Perhaps it's merely shorthand. Perhaps these writers, editors, and fans know the characters aren't heroic but call them that for lack of a better term.

Or perhaps, and this is my theory, perhaps super-heroes are still vehicles for wish fulfillment. But what we have now is sick wish fulfillment. Maybe our political climate is making some contribution to this need we have to feel powerful, but I tend to feel that the political climate, too, is a symptom of the malaise infecting us. People aren't high on "Identity Crisis" because the heroes make mistakes for dramatic purposes, they dig it because it's the kind of "mistake" that they would love to be able to make.

How else can you explain the phenomenon?

People are enjoying a story where the 'heroes' aren't writing wrongs, but committing them.

What do you think? Am I right? Does this speak to something more significant, something perhaps generational? Or am I full of shit? Can the characters in "Identity Crisis" still be considered heroes (in terms of this particular story, not in terms of larger, continuity-type issues)? If not, where else am I wrong? Is it significant of nothing that we have apparently thematically returned to the early 90's grim-n-gritty period?

If you like this stuff, why are you stupid? Should you be allowed out of the house? If I held a mirror directly under your nose, it wouldn't fog up, would it?

Ahhhrrrggg. Sorry. I almost blogged a good blog there for a minute. Hmmm...Does my pathological need to insult speak to something larger? Is society crumbling at its very foundations? If I eat this entire piece of chocolate cake in one bite, will I regret not saving some of it for twenty seconds from now?

34 Comments:

Blogger Joe Rice said...

I think you're on to something, but you're not quite there. To me, superhero comics is aging at a rate only slightly faster than the heroes contained within. Superhero comics were originally made for children. This fact would seem inarguable, but there's always someone who gets offended by it.

But superhero comics clearly aren't made for children very much anymore. They would have you believe (as would the fans) that they are for adults now. They're not. The world of adulthood is not the dark opposite of innocent childhood. Rather, childhood is the thesis, adolescence is the antithesis, and adulthood is the synthesis.

Childhood is the innocent time. When comics were made for kids they were of more black and white morality, often. They didn't take themselves too seriously. If heroes mindwiped a villain, it was in a context where that was not a crime, it was The Right Thing. Women didn't get raped.

Around the time that people started misunderstanding Watchmen and DKR, something happened. Superheroes, creators, and fandom finally went into adolescence. Adolescence is the time of the orphan. Myths are brought down, reality is shown as a betrayer of hope, and everyone feels completely alone and ostrasized.

The "realism" found in most superhero comics is just arrested adolescence. Take everything light and make it dark. Throw blood and shit everywhere, because the big bad world has hurt me, and there's no such thing as good.

Luckily, adolescence in most people is a relatively short period. Adults learn to take the things they learned as children and as adolescents and combine these things with real life experiences. Real life CAN be hard and it CAN be fun and it can be anything else. Realism is not only shit and blood; that alone is the petty cynicism of the teenager. Realism is also rainbows and puppy dogs, for it all exists and there is a place for all of it.

12/20/2004 06:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/20/2004 06:38:00 PM  
Blogger Paul said...

So you're saying that fan tastes develop/mature outside conventional generational lines? That people are enjoying this because, more or less as a collective, fans are in adolescence, and adolescents enjoy heroes behaving badly?

(IT'S ME, DAMMIT)

12/20/2004 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

It's a theory, and I think there's decent evidence for it.

12/20/2004 06:47:00 PM  
Blogger Max Zero said...

So if grim and gritty is a predominantly adolescent worldview and nostalgic yearnings are just a retarded attempt to capture your inner child, what would a genuinely adult super-hero comic be like?

Has there even been one? Can you guys give any examples?

12/20/2004 08:01:00 PM  
Blogger Paul said...

I'd need to think on that.

But in the meantime, Max, clean out your CBR email box.

12/20/2004 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

Well, I wouldn't say it's QUITE that cut-and-dry. My main point is what usually passes for "realism" is anything but that. As for actually realistic superhero comics, I'd be hard-pressed to find one that is overall realistic. You can have emotional realism, scientific realism, pictoral realism . . .

And even then it is all pretty subjective. I could write a true story about my life that would be deemed unrealistic by some. Other people might lead a constantly depressed, dreary life that would seem contrived as a story to me.

In the end, I think grim and gritty is more adolescent than adult. I think a well-written childlike comic is more adult than that. Not that I think being "adult" or "realistic" should be the sole goal of superhero rags.

12/20/2004 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger Ed Cunard said...

I would say the closest thing to a truly "mature" (and not all-boobies-and-"fuck"-all-the-time mature) would be in Jonathan Lethem's Fortress of Solitude. And not just because it's a book-book, either. I'd feel the same way about it if it was a comic.

The problem isn't the "coolness" of grittiness, or the fun-with-a-capital-FUN of crazy, mind-blowing superheroics. It's that, by concentrating on one aspect and one aspect alone, the entire thing falls flat.

I know there's a big hate-on for the guy writing AMAZING SPIDER-MAN (the one with the name I can't spell), but I think he's found a fairly good thematic balance going with his little run on that title, including the I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Rape storyline that has people in a tizzy. It's not GREAT COMICS, but it works as a collection of little stories without relying on too much of any one thing.

12/20/2004 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger alex said...

I always go back to the Darwyn Cooke theory that these "dark" books are borne out of comic fans being unable to let go of charcaters that they loved as children, but needing more adult stories. Consequently they drag their childish interests into "mature" material.

It's all about arrested development, and by that I do not mean my favorite TV show.

Kids still love comics about genuine good time superheroes. Joe and I can both attest to that. The folks that REALLY love the "gritty" material are adults (often with a continuity fixation). I think most of these comics sell as just one more book in a big and varied pile. I dunno if it's indicative of any sort of Zietgeist, other than bad writing.

12/20/2004 09:03:00 PM  
Blogger Greg said...

I know I want "flawed" heroes, but certainly not criminal ones. I agree with the comments on here about "realism." Realism is a catch-all phrase for cursing, sex, and unimaginable violence. But real-life can be pretty good, too. It annoys me when comics writers feel they have to break up anything good about relationships in comics for the sake of "realism." That may be what offended me the most about Identity Crisis -- Ralph and Sue's relationship was one of the best in comics. It's definitely what offended me the most about Morrison's X-Men -- Scott and Jean may not have been the most interesting couple, but they were real, and I can't imagine Scott hooking up with Emma. Before I become too geeky, it just seems that writers can't deal with attempting to write a "normal" relationship -- one that might end, but ends without one party getting brutally killed. I hope that superhero comics can evolve past this desire to see everything torn down, but it's been that way for 20-25 years, and it's not looking good.

"Adult" superhero comic? How about Astro City? Sure, it doesn't focus on a single hero, but that date with Samaritan and Winged Victory was pretty adult.

12/20/2004 09:29:00 PM  
Blogger Ed Cunard said...

I think Greg kind of hits the nail on the head. The problem isn't realism; it's "realism" that screws things up.

Is there any on-line glossary that translates what people mean when they use terms as buzzwords?

Mature - here there be boobies and swearing
Realism - all life is bad, bad, bad
Edgy - we couldn't do good, so we went for shock value
"Comics aren't for kids anymore!" - No, just stunted adolescents

12/21/2004 10:52:00 AM  
Blogger Paul said...

Ed Cunard writes...

"It's that, by concentrating on one aspect and one aspect alone, the entire thing falls flat."

Right. I guess those adolescents or people experiencing arrested development need their NUDEBLOOD CURSE, INC. books like children need their own type of material.

I guess I'm just really worried with this "tonal shift" DC Editorial talks about taking, and now separating potentially good material into this "All-Star" line, they're basically telling me that their main line books aren't for me.

But at least there's Seven Soldiers! And All-Star Superman! There, there, Paul! 2005 is going to be great!

12/21/2004 01:43:00 PM  
Blogger Ed Cunard said...

I don't know if we're agreeing or not - I was replying specifically to "comics for adults," and how grim-and-gritty isn't really "adult" in the sense that it appeals (or rather, should appeal) to adult sensibilities.

But, yay for those books you mention!

You haven't, by chance, read STREET ANGEL, have you?

12/21/2004 02:15:00 PM  
Blogger Paul said...

Well, even if you aren't agreeing with me, I'm agreeing with you. So suck on that, Cunard!

I haven't got a chance to get "Street Angel," but it's one of those I keep hearing about. I'll definitely pick it up someday.

12/21/2004 03:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greg:

Normal relationships don't work well in soap opera, which is what most of the stuff that isn't people hitting each other seems to be (and has been since the Silver Age, at least - don't tell me a lot of those old Action Comics covers don't give you the same vibe as the true-romance comics of the same period).

In fact, I'll generalize further: normal = no drama, at least when it comes to this sort of storytelling. Which is not to say that "not normal" is automatically "good drama"...

12/21/2004 06:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(addendum - I'm awful at posting before I'm finished, and can't edit)

That is, the Action covers with weepy Lois and/or stoic Superman/Clark fretting about how he can't reveal his secret, or why the latest crisis means that he must Leave Earth Forever... you know the type.

12/21/2004 06:43:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

I'll further tangent along and say that Scott and Jean didn't work because they weren't a normal relationship at all. They were a fanboy enforced relationship. Jean and Scott were together because they were Jean and Scott and they were together. The logic was circular and self-defeating. Scott had become the deadest character in most of fiction when it came to development. Morrison's entire run was a quick resurrection on poor Jesus Cyclops.

12/21/2004 08:15:00 PM  
Blogger Ed Cunard said...

Also, normal relationships can - and do - have a drama of their own. Sadly, that's not often done well in superhero comics, hence RELATIONSHIP HELLFUCK.

12/21/2004 09:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Superhero comics were originally made for children. This fact would seem inarguable, but there's always someone who gets offended by it."

I've read this a couple of times on the blog and elsewhere--how did you arive at this? Did the golden age creators of the superhero stories say something to this effect, or was it the publishers who were aiming at children? How much disposable income did kids have in the 20s and the 30s to spend on this stuff? The content in some ways was more violent and dark--so, were kids more able to handle a story like "IC" in the 20s and 30s, or has something else changed?

12/22/2004 06:43:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

Sales figures and other facts from the period point to superhero comics being primarily made for children. Eisner himself has mentioned it in his books and interviews. One must also only look at the merchendizing that went with the books . . .certainly not stuff that adults bought before they became reluctant-adult-boomers.

As for the content, this was pre-Code. Nobody was getting graphically raped, but there was a war going on. Nobody really thought a little violence in a comic was going to hurt kids.

12/22/2004 07:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob Douglas says,

Sales figures and other facts from the period point to superhero comics being primarily made for children. Eisner himself has mentioned it in his books and interviews. One must also only look at the merchendizing that went with the books . . .certainly not stuff that adults bought before they became reluctant-adult-boomers.

As for the content, this was pre-Code. Nobody was getting graphically raped, but there was a war going on. Nobody really thought a little violence in a comic was going to hurt kids."

Eisner may have said he was making stuff for kids, but most of the other golden age creators were from other disciplines and genres. America wasn't in the war yet if you're talking about 1932 or even 1938.

Couldn't the same argument be made about the content now, then? How is the graphic depiction of war be less harmful to kids than the graphic depiction of rape or other violence? If the golden age creators were making comics for kids--although I think it could be argued that it wasn't the creators but the publishing companies like Timely and National and such that realized their markets were children--then what's the difference now? If it was okay for kids then to see brutality, then there should be nothing wrong with brutality in comics now. Most comics seem downright Wertham in comparison.

I was the posted the last anonmyous content.

12/22/2004 07:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know if I agree, exactly, because it seems that the point was, "Well, comics are wish-fulfilment, the wishes that are being fulfilled are wishes for
sickies, therefore ...." At least, that's how I read it. I do like the comics as wish fulfilment angle. That makes sense to me. That's the core of science-fiction at some level. I'm just not sure if the wishes that are
being fulfilled are for sickies exactly. And come to think of it, most of the comics I read aren't for wishfulfilment. I mean, I read Halo and
Sprocket because it was funny. Funny isn't wish fulfilment to me, it's just funny.

I don't think Siegel and Schuster intended to make Superman for kids--they were into doing science fiction stories and such and were aiming for that audience. I think that Siegel did a fanzine, the first sci-fi fanzine. He did two, one was called Cosmic Stories when he was in high school, the other was Science Fiction. Science Fiction had some of the first published
Ray Bradbury stories.

The first story they did with Superman had him as a familiar to the mythos bald villain in 1932 in "The Reign of the Super-Man." It's got this great
opening line that I memorized, "The breadline! It's row of downcast disillusioned men unlucky creatures who have found that life holds nothing but bitterness for them. The breadline!" Doesn't every young writer do
something like this at that age? Cast an eye out at the world and see all the troubles and put them down in a form you can deal with?

By 1938 the two kids had gotten the concept down and taken their Superman to roots laid down in Gladiator and Doc Savage. That's when the famous part of the story, where Supermen is rejected one after the other, really kicks in, until one company saw the gem and used it to create an empire.

When people read those comics, maybe it was wish fulfilment. That's science-fiction at its core; the ideas of tomorrow ready to experience today.

I think I see the point of this--namely, that the folks who dig on identity crisis are sickies or some such--(ie, that the wishfullfilment that is being granted by IC is deranged), but what's your prescription? Are you trying to guilt the current audience into changing their tastes by calling them sickies? Or are their different stories to tell? Or maybe is it time to
let go of some of those characters all-together? In which case, where does that put the blog writers--are you guys part of the problem by hanging
onto the childhood characters?

-f.

12/22/2004 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger alex said...

eff dot said:

"In which case, where does that put the blog writers--are you guys part of the problem by hanging
onto the childhood characters?"

Well, we may be habging onto them, but just in terms of the attachment in our widdle hearts. Guys like Meltzer or Millar are hanging onto them and dragging them into adult situations and totally shitting on them and making them suck.

Also, Superman is for kids. Period. That's that. I'm sick to death of this fucking argument. I've provided the quotes, I've shown the numbers- HE WAS MADE FOR KIDS. Comics were a market for children and that is that. Even EC books, as gruesome as they were, were marketed towards the under twelve set. It hurts me that people can't deal with this, that people keep wanting to argue. No one at National Periodicals in 1940 was saying "How can we make this stupid shit interesting to our audience of 30 year olds?" Never Happened. Ever.

And let me point out, one last time... We're not "part of the problem". How could we be? We're not writing the shitty stories that don't sell outside a tiny fanbase. We're just dudes with a blog talking about comics.

And Superman is for children. He wears motherfucking bright blue tights, GODDAMMIT!!!!! I"M SO SICK OF HAVING TO DEFEND THIS STATEMENT!!!!!

AAAAARGH!!!!!!

But seriously, thank you for posting, F Dot.

-a

12/22/2004 07:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

alex went crazypants and said...

"Guys like Meltzer or Millar are hanging onto them and dragging them into adult situations and totally shitting on them and making them suck.

Superman is for children. He wears motherfucking bright blue tights, GODDAMMIT!!!!! I"M SO SICK OF HAVING TO DEFEND THIS STATEMENT!!!!!"

Um, so, seriously, you're saying that the golden age of superhero comics were all about the kids, right? Why not write a blog post about this? It'd be interesting to read about. Plus, it might offer more opportunity to watch alex go crazy and whine, which is always fun. Anyway, someone make a-hole write a post about the Golden Age of Comics, because it would be dope.

Getting back to the point of P-dot's blog post--I thought that part of the problem was taking kids characters and dragging them into adult content. And also that the wish-fulfillment that was going on in IC was for sickies. Now, that last line is my interpretation, is it accurate or something else? So, is All-Star Comics a good alternative, then, to the wish fulfillment for sickies that's happening in stories like IC? Am I reading this interpretation wrong?

So, okay, what's the difference between DC and this blog at this point, then? If you guys are hanging onto kids content, too, naturally as adults you're going to do the same thing as those awful, awful creators. For example, all the "jizz" commentary. The commentary of the site is largely focused on material for kids--or at least material that was designed originally for kids. The commentary here is largely NOT written for kids, however, even though its about characters that are written for kids. It's like reading, "It's bullshit to use profanity!" sometimes.

12/22/2004 08:31:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

I think the moment one of us writes a Superman comic where Clark says, "Holy shit, Lois! This anti-Kryptonite is so awesome it made me jizz!" then you can call bullshit on us. As it is, we're adult friends discussing something with the same language we use in everyday life.

We're not trying to drag the characters or material into our world. We enjoy them for what they are and enjoy our world for what it is.

12/22/2004 08:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, okay, I don't really need your permission to call bullshit when I see it. But thanks. It's a blog about making good comics, including superhero comics for children, written by and for our elitist cock friends and not intended for the internet in general. Is this it? I mean, sorry to call bullshit on your bullshit, but I only posted my question to P. Teel here 'cause he asked me to.

"Getting back to the point of P-dot's blog post--I thought that part of the problem was taking kids characters and dragging them into adult content. And also that the wish-fulfillment that was going on in IC was for sickies. Now, that last line is my interpretation, is it accurate or something else? So, is All-Star Comics a good alternative, then, to the wish fulfillment for sickies that's happening in stories like IC? Am I reading this interpretation wrong?"

12/22/2004 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

Well, I don't think you actually see bullshit here. You see a point that I guess you don't like and you're using a side point to argue it. "Superhero comics weren't for kids" or whatever has gotten in your craw and so "Aha! They use vulgarity so they are hipocrits!"

The logic doesn't follow hence I renounce your bullshit call.

No matter why you posted here, you posted here and made points. It's a site for discussion. If you make a point, expect it to be discussed. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

12/22/2004 09:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Don't get your panties in a bunch."

Relax there chief, the only panties in a bunch are yours. You can renounce all you like, but that don't change a thing. The side point occurred to me in all the distraction away from P.dot's blog post. I just think it's funny that you're railing about superhero comics being for kids, and writing a site largely focused on superhero comics that isn't written for kids.

The only point I was making about Siegel and Schuster was that they were making sci-fi material. I mean, it's pretty obvious that the audience who responded to comics were kids and that kids are the ones who built the comics industry. But this has nothing to do with what I was getting at, which was that the creators of Superman--being specific here--were doing sci-fi. And that sci-fi was and is also wishfulfilment on some level. But not all comics are wish fullfilment, but maybe the superhero and sci-fi comics are and were on some level. So, maybe if you found the kind of sci-fi that kids dig now, you can find the superheroes that kids would dig now.

Anyway, for the fourth friggin' time, I was interested in was P-dot's thoughts on a prescription for change. The most interesting part of his post was the last bit about IC--so I wanted to clarify. Was he saying that IC was wishfullfilment for sickies? And if so, what's the alternative? Or was he saying something else entirely?

12/22/2004 09:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And also too that part of the problem might be adults in general hanging onto the childish material. Gotta be fair about that since it was in the last sentence of the first post I wrote.

I mean, if the licensing is where DC and the companies make their money, and the adults are the ones who can afford most of that stuff, then maybe that's why their product is catered the way that it is. On the other hand, maybe most of the retail and licensing money flows from products for kids--not in retail so I don't know. In which case, why AREN'T DC and Marvel creating more material for kids?

12/22/2004 09:44:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

"I just think it's funny that you're railing about superhero comics being for kids, and writing a site largely focused on superhero comics that isn't written for kids."

Well, the kids I know are hardly in a place to do anything about it. They love comics, they love superheroes, but I have to break my back to find stuff suitable for them. So I go online and I rant and I rave as an adult to other adults who CAN do something about the medium. I'd see your point if I were putting this stuff in a comic for kids or if I were saying it TO kids. But none of us are doing that at all. We're adults, at a site for adults, discussing comics. One of the points some of us agree upon is that there should be more comics for kids and that most superheroes were originally made for kids. I guess you're seeing irony where I only see something straightforward.

12/22/2004 09:46:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Rice said...

"In which case, why AREN'T DC and Marvel creating more material for kids?"

1. Because they're too reliant on a direct market unfriendly to children.

2. Their current bread and butter cries foul and refuses to buy anything that doesn't cater to their exact needs.

3. They lack the marketing wherewithall to get a new bread and butter.

4. The industry is almost totally run by aging fanboys dragging their childhood heroes to the grave.

12/22/2004 09:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I guess you're seeing irony where I only see something straightforward."

Which is ironic I guess. Because there are no kids on the internet. They'd have to seek out this place in order to find the content. But, isn't this like comics then? The kids would also have to seek out the offending content in some of those bad adult comics in order to be offended by it. I'll leave this irony alone, chief. I'm not saying stop cussin' while bussin', just that it's funny to listen to someone rail about adult content while using adult content.

"1. Because they're too reliant on a direct market unfriendly to children."

But why? And how does this get addressed? Do you make comic retail outlets more friendly to kids? There are some books which are aimed at kids--but they're mostly in CN and WB type books.

On the third deal, this is inaccurate. The comics industry has found the wherewithall to find a new market for their products--namely movies and anscillary licensing. The slate of superhero movies produced since 1998 is testimony to that. The licensing of Spider-Man alone generated a lot of cash in many different directions for Marvel. This company is barely even in the comics business anymore. Instead, they're a company that seems to exist to license all of their Stan/Jack/Ditko/et al. characters. This is part of the trouble, and its one shared by other media concerns. Namely, that the larger media conglomorates (such as Disney, Time/Warner, etc..) no longer seem able to produce original, appealing content. Rather, they can license existing content. Steven Grant had a lot of opines on this over the years, and his observations extend beyond comics. The best that DC has are still Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman. DC can't seem to, as a company, create new characters that could jump them into a new window. Neil Gaiman was able to provide this for a while with his Sandman series. But even so, most of the "new" characters to the DCU have come from purchases of outside licenses (like Wildstorm). At best, they can service their existing fan base, since the only directions the company can create new revenue channels are through licenses to other entertainment markets.

On the last point, there is probably a truth to this. Joe Quesada loved comics, drew them, and now runs Marvel. I don't know who runs DC, but their writing pool is made out of supposed fans of the Silver Age.

So, new blood? Find creators outside of comics? Ask the people who don't love comics to make them?

And what about IC? P-dot, do you have any continuing thoughts on the last bit of your post? Bueller? Bueller? Did this raise or lower--raise--the laffer curve? Anyone?

-f.

12/22/2004 11:52:00 PM  
Blogger alex said...

You're right fred. Us talking about comics and mentioning jizz on our blog is exactly the same as RAPING SUE DIBNEY IN A MAINSTREAM COMIC. Come on dude. You know better than that shit.

And as for writing a post once again explaining that Golden Age comics were published for children, well, I would, but you can get the same information from EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKING BOOK ON COMICS HISTORY.

What the fuck? Has the whole world gone crazy!??!?!? Are people so insecure in liking kiddie lit characters that they have to dress it up as Archetypal Sci Fi and give Seigal and Shuster the fucking Pulitzer Prize?

I am done with this topic. It's giving me a fucking anuerism. Jeez. Now my brain fluid is leaking.

Thanks assholes.


-a

12/23/2004 08:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeez, and Joe said MY panties were in a twist.

-f.

12/24/2004 02:10:00 AM  

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